By Karly, Hannah, and Jo
In honour of International Women’s Day, we at The Three decided to chat to the most important women in our lives about feminism: our moms.
From three different countries and three different generations, our chats revealed three very different perspectives on what feminism has meant for these amazing women.
Karly and her mom, Teresa
My mom Teresa was born on a farm in Beulah, Manitoba, Canada in 1950. She left the farm at 18 and attended the University of Manitoba for a few years, where she met my dad. They were married in 1974 and moved to Canada’s West Coast, where my mom built a career as an accountant.
What does feminism mean to you?
Feminism means that women are treated equally as men in all capacities.
I’ve had to fight hard for everything to be equal with men every step of the way; jobs, banking, earlier in my life just even having access to different types of jobs. Which is why I went by Terry until the 1980s, because ‘Terry’ would get me in the door and ‘Teresa’ wouldn’t.
When did you first hear the term feminism, and how have your feelings towards the term changed since you first heard it?
I first heard the actual term in the late 60s, when I was in my late teens. I think it showed up in my life before that in my relationship with my brother. I think I was always a feminist, before I heard the term.
I grew up with three sisters and one brother, and the one brother seemed to think he was the boss of all of us and I was the only one who decided that he wasn’t, which always created a little bit of animosity and antagonism between the two of us.
My mother, I think, was a feminist. Her comment to us as we were growing up was that girls need an education as much, if not more so, than a man because you never know when you’re going to have to look after yourself and your family.
So the idea was around, even if the term wasn’t there.
I first experienced [feminism] for myself probably in my late teens. I went to see a doctor because I wanted to go on birth control and he says, you’re not married, no. We can only prescribe birth control pills to married women.
So the options that were available then for birth control were what, just abstinence?
At the time I suppose condoms were available, but I don’t think they were on every drugstore shelf. I think you had to ask a pharmacist if you wanted them, so nobody did.
That would have been around 1970 and things changed quite quickly after that. By 1975, you could buy condoms, you could get birth control, you could do whatever you wanted. That was the free love era in the states, where everything just all of a sudden opened up.
That’s when I think feminism really came to the forefront. During that period where women were expressing their rights and demanding that they had the same freedoms as men.
If you think about what feminism meant to you, and meant culturally at that time, how do you think it’s changed from the 1970s to now?
There’s a lot of things that haven’t changed. Progress is incredibly slow, and we seem to take two steps forward and one step back.
In the 1970s, if I was pregnant, my boss could terminate my job. There was no maternity leave, there was no getting a job back when your pregnancy’s over, there was no anything. There was no pay, your job could be terminated. So that has changed a lot, especially in Canada, because I believe now that even men have paternity leave that’s up to a year.
(Author’s note: I looked it up and parental leave in Canada can be up to 40 weeks split between parents, and extended parental leave can be up to 69 weeks.)
In terms of pay equity, I found that when I wanted a pay increase, I had to change jobs. My bosses were not giving pay rises to women. If I wanted to earn more money, I had to find another job that would pay me more. I don’t think that’s quite as bad today, but it’s still prevalent.
When I got married in 1974, I’d already been living on my own for years, I had credit cards. And I went to the bank to change my name on my credit card because I had taken your father’s name, which was a stupid thing to have done but I did, and they took the card and they said he’ll have to come in to sign for this card.
I said, What do you mean? I’ve had this card for years. They said, since you’re married he’s responsible. You can’t have this card unless he comes in and signs for it. I said, you realize he’s a student and I’m the one that’s making the money and paying the bills?
So you imagine what I told them about the card and left.
Can you see any ways in which the feminist movement has directly affected your life and your choices?
I think that’s one of the reasons I became an accountant; it seemed like a field where it would be far more difficult to be discriminated against.
I was fortunate that I had a boss who was encouraging. He wanted somebody in the accounting department and he didn’t have anybody available that he thought was capable of doing what he wanted, so he said to me, would you like to take these courses? And I said sure, why not, what have I got to lose?
Once I started taking the courses, I realized that it was a really good path forward. And I was actually very good at accounting, despite the fact that I wasn’t good at math. I had the logical mindset to do it, which I think at that point most men would think that women weren’t logical. But women are very logical.
What do you hope feminism will achieve in the future?
I would like if women wouldn’t have to fight so hard for equal rights, if we would be paid dollar-for-dollar the same as men and given the respect in the boardrooms and the top management and the political sphere, without having to go through all the bullshit that women have to go through to deal with it.
Because watching women in politics—they have to go through twice as much shit as men do. The same with boardrooms, when you look at the Forbes top 100, how many women are there? Women make better decisions than men. There should be more women at the top.
I think women will not be treated equal until that’s fixed. Because until that is fixed, men are the ones telling women what to do.
I do think some feminists go a little bit overboard. But sometimes, I think, in order to be seen you have to do that. It’s a catch 22, it pushes feminism to the edge, which makes it actually slip back a step because sometimes it’s overboard. But there’s no pushing the envelope unless you do that. It’s a fine balance.
I have hope because I think the younger generation of men, most of them, look at women differently than men of my generation. So I think there’s hope there. I think that once all these old fogies are gone, I think things will improve quite dramatically. And we’ve got all these nice young, smart women like you and your friends and your sister coming up. So I am very hopeful.
Hannah and her mum, Deborah
My mother was born on a British army base hospital in Germany in 1957. Her father was in the army and from a young age she attended a boarding school in Kent (she had it good compared to her sister, 11 years older, who got sent to a French-speaking convent in Belgium – she did not speak French at the time). Mum studied Home Economics in Liverpool, met my father in Birmingham and moved with him to Perth, Australia, which is basically the end of the world. This resulted in her essentially giving up her career for a long period of time. I took the time to talk to her during one of our video chats where she had been complaining about the Australian government’s lack of action on climate breakdown.
What does feminism mean to you?
Oh god, you’re going to make me think
[Pauses]
The ability to be yourself, say what you want and stand up for what you want.
When did you first hear the term and have your feelings towards the term changed since you first heard it?
I don’t know! I’ve known it forever. Probably when I was a teenager. When what’s her face was around. Gloria Steinem. What’s the Australian woman? The Female Eunuch was around that time… I don’t really recall but I’ve always felt that I should be able to do what I wanted to do.
My feelings have got stronger towards it. Because I’m a woman it shouldn’t mean I’m any different, it shouldn’t stop me. But I think that is a different thing from your own personal stops.
(Author’s note: When my mum says ‘stop’ here, she’s talking about a lack of confidence, a personal psychological blocker.)
But it’s different when it comes to yourself and you have these thoughts of ‘oh my god can I do this thing?’ Just because you have more opportunity doesn’t necessarily mean you can do it.
My parents never treated me any differently because I was a girl, but I remember my mother saying once “you should have a little job” and I was very annoyed about that. But that was just the way they were brought up.
Can you see any ways in which the feminist movement has directly affected your life and your choices?
I think because I was at boarding school I thought nothing of going to places on my own. Nothing stoped me from taking off and doing something. Feminism probably changed what I was able to do, but I never really analysed it. It was more my own circumstances.
Mum, what about when you went back to school? You were a single mother who studied and looked after two teenagers. [Author’s note: I was not an easy teenager.] Didn’t you get an allowance from the government?
Well, I paid for school, I had some money from mum and that paid for my degree. I did get child support from your father and an allowance to look after you two from the government. That meant I didn’t have to work whilst studying and I had enough money to live on.
(Author’s note: My parents divorced when I was 11 and my grandma died when I was in my early teens. Shortly after that, mum went to university to get a degree in Dental Hygiene. She worked really hard, the course was super intense and I’m really proud of her for it. She gets paid very well!)
Why didn’t you originally do dentistry?
When I was 18 got accepted to do dental nursing at Eastman Dental Hospital in London. I was going to be a hygienist and may have even been a dentist. I can’t remember why I didn’t end up going. I ended up moving to Liverpool and studied Home Economics at technical college. I loved cooking. I wanted to work for the gas board.
What would you do there?
It was things like testing recipes for food photography, helping people with their gas appliances.
Well that would never have worked, you can’t even work a computer.
I’m not going to participate anymore. Write down mother stopped due to rudeness of daughter.
So why didn’t you end up working for the gas board?
Because I met your father, which was a bad idea. I couldn’t do home economics so I ended up teaching, which I hated. I would be better at teaching adults and a willing audience. I can’t cope with the children, the rudeness, the discipline. I didn’t hate it at first, but it was worse when I came back from being a stay at home mother.
I remember my dad telling me you chose to stay home. Do you regret the choice to move to Australia?
I chose to stay home. But I couldn’t really have worked, your father went away for long periods of time. So it was a decision that made the most sense. I was quite happy to follow him to Australia and be with him, but I wasn’t aware I wouldn’t be able to do much, and I wasn’t aware I would be here forever.
But you liked it and you wanted to stay?
Yes.
Okay, what do you hope feminism will achieve in the future?
Oh goodness. Um. I think women having it all is not a sensible concept because I think it makes things too hard. But there should be a more equal division of childcare. It should be more acceptable for men to take time off to look after their children instead of the women who have to do it. Employers should view men and women equally.
I still think it’s really hard for women to have a career and children and I don’t know how you get round that one. I think to have your own business and employ a nanny. Dentistry is well paid and you can choose your own hours. You’re giving up time with the kids to have a career and you have to pay for it. It’s like you have to employ a wife to look after your children.
What advice would you give me if I was going to have kids?
Marry someone rich, and then you could afford it.
Jo and her momma, Sheri
My mom was born in Missouri in 1961 and stayed there until she graduated high school. She then moved to Houston briefly, back to Missouri, then Phoenix where she had my brother (Korby), then California where she had me. In Nevada a couple years after I was born she decided to pause her career and be a stay at home mom. After I graduated she moved to Arkansas and now works as an office manager for a restaurant chain’s home office.
What does feminism mean to you?
Not what it means to the rest of the world. Obviously being female, but it’s hard to describe. It’s not wearing a pink hat.
I guess I think of [feminism] differently from being a feminist. Feminists are more… fighting for a right… I guess a lot of rights that you already have.
I see both sides of it, I just wish that the side that was really loud was more articulate in its message, but not so extreme. I think they’re shouting so loudly the real message is lost.
When did you first hear the term and how have your feelings toward it changed?
I don’t even remember when I first heard it. I guess I think back to the 60’s and “make love not war”, and bra burning, and “bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan, and never let you forget you’re a man”. I guess that was my first inkling of a ‘power to women’ kind of movement, and that’s all from a perfume commercial.
Now it’s more front and center in my life than it’s ever been before. Like the #MeToo movement, which again— I don’t believe just because a woman comes forward means her word should be taken as true. I think once again, the real message gets drowned out by a false narrative sometimes.
Can you see any ways that the movement has directly affected your life/choices?
I should add that I am a Bible-thumping Christian and that shapes my views, not to say that I think a woman’s place is the home, but I was pro-life before the movement and I’m still pro-life.
I think that’s another thing where we’ve gotten so out of hand. Not like I didn’t have my wilder days, I think I should be able to wear whatever I want to wear without being treated poorly or a certain way because of it, but I’m not sure it’s really changed my views because my views are pretty solidly Biblically based.
What do you hope fem will achieve in the future?
I want it to tell girls, you can do whatever you want and you are more valuable than what you wear and what you look like. No one gets to say to you, “You are only valuable up to this point.”
You can achieve the things you want to achieve.
Omg, wow! What incredible stories!
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